tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post3645964968783978040..comments2013-06-02T05:45:35.957-07:00Comments on duff gordon: When did Jesus know?duff gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11326154076874371975noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post-66947762027163631482012-12-31T10:49:32.473-08:002012-12-31T10:49:32.473-08:00i've been meaning to comment on this for days!...i've been meaning to comment on this for days! sorry i am late in the conversation. those are really interesting points... i've never actually thought about when/how jesus found out he was the christ. its a little mind-boggling to think about. when you consider christians who profess faith from very early on (early childhood), their testimonies are often "i can't pinpoint a moment, but the lord saved me from early on" or "i have never known a day where i wasn't sure of god's salvation." so perhaps it was a gradual development that grew into a surety of faith through the scriptures, or maybe it was that jesus had been "confirmed" in the womb and then had that perfect faith onwards... (which is a cool idea to think about, especially as we pray for teddy!).<br /><br />i was thinking though that jesus' miracles were more than just signs to others. they were a fulfillment of scriptures and needed to be done for that reason (e.g. healings), and also they revealed different parts of the Father's character and the kingdom (e.g. multiplying bread and fish, casting out demons, catching fish as a point that they will become fishers of men). they were also undoubtedly a "confirmation" of faith (in his divinity) but i suppose the motivation for that (whether for himself or others) is, as you say, for others. or perhaps, miracles were always just natural springs from perfect faith (as grey mentioned) and maybe jesus experienced them from the beginning because his faith was perfect. when he heals some people jesus says "'your faith has healed you" not "i have healed you" so i wonder if jesus just knew that perfect faith allows for the impossible and acted accordingly. <br /><br />all in all, very interesting musings...jojo gadgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03243667654836294703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post-84492475384298554252012-12-29T04:56:59.696-08:002012-12-29T04:56:59.696-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.duff gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11326154076874371975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post-68345603323953779692012-12-28T13:27:36.107-08:002012-12-28T13:27:36.107-08:00Good points Grey. I tried to emphasize that Christ...Good points Grey. I tried to emphasize that Christ was in all ways tempted as we are...this was for our sakes, not his. So when we struggle with faith/certainty we know that Christ did too- in ALL ways He was tempted though we know he was victorious in these trials. If you read my piece on the Centurion his faith was so intense it bordered on certainty....and yet God the Father makes it abundantly clear that FAITH is what pleases him. There is also a Descartes argument- are you certain you are certain? dad duff gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11326154076874371975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post-38098483031876194342012-12-25T10:42:22.018-08:002012-12-25T10:42:22.018-08:00I can't believe mom beat me to the punch! She&...I can't believe mom beat me to the punch! She's such a blogger now.<br /><br />It's a really interesting idea that Jesus had to learn from scripture, from his mother and the circumstances surrounding his birth, that he was the Christ. And that he would not perform miracles except as a sign to others---and not to confirm his faith that he was the son of God. He definitely believed he was the son of God by age 12 (as is part of the story mom mentioned).<br /><br />We have Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." So when you say, "Jesus did not know he was the Son of God, he had faith he was the Son of God," I think Jesus did know he was the Son of God, but maybe that knowledge is an intense---perfect---faith. <br /><br />That "emptying" passage from Philippians is really tricky. Because he definitely knew things that could not be known by purely human knowledge. For instance, when he knew someone had passed away, like waiting until Lazarus died to leave. So perhaps God spoke to him at the first time he could understand, or continually ever since he was born. In fact given human fathers who have such affection and talk to their children who can't understand, that could definitely be the case. <br /><br />But the message that Christ would not test his Father to confirm his faith is definitely true. Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10190073082817963118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2859131826857051653.post-65578642221728531842012-12-25T07:38:08.153-08:002012-12-25T07:38:08.153-08:00luke mentions that, even before the 12 year old Je...luke mentions that, even before the 12 year old Jesus astounds at the temple and at which point he understands well who is Father is, the boy was filled with wisdom....not the typical 12 yr old boy, i think.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03043405779426849622noreply@blogger.com